dgsmith	OK, I think we're going to go ahead and get started. We have Sam Ford - our Executive Director and Lee Heighton - our chairman of the Board. We have a couple other Board members and others may wander in over time.
BCSam	Thanks. I believe nomination for Hall of Fame and Regional MVP went live on the web site. So now if anyone would like to place a name into the hat for consideration it can be accomplished online.
dgsmith	We also need to announce that due to a number of conflicts for Board members, the planned Memorial Day Weekend Board meeting is being rescheduled. No new date has been settled on as yet. Seems we're a rough bunch to schedule.
dgsmith	Our first question for the evening comes from Mary
dgsmith	MaryEcho> Is there any talk at the board of trying to get 2 regional directors for region 2. It is a huge region and also with tournaments on every weekend, it is extremely hard for rd's not to be overworked.
BCSam	That suggestion has been made and is under consideration. But no decision has been made to that effect yet.
MaryEcho	Any time lines for a decision?
BCSam	We would try and get the decision to the BOD and approved so that October of this year it would go into effect.
MaryEcho	Any alternatives to lessen the problem for this racing year?
Glenn_SRC	Aby thought of trying the two person RD while we are in the midst of 30 weekends in 40 of racing?
BCSam	I have asked RDs for comments from each region already and they have made several interesting suggestion that will come before the BOD.
BCSam	There is no problem to appointing an Acting RD to aide in the mean time.
dgsmith	Moving to the next question - a followup from last chat
dgsmith	Zac_BorderingOnInsanity> Last Chat we discussed recording injuries per the Clean Run Mag.
BCSam	So far no injury reports have come my way. So I don't have much to report on that issue
dgsmith	Zac - want to elaborate for those who weren't here last time?
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	In clean run mag, they are charting into a database injuries for both the dog and the handler so that a better understanding of the sport can be made. I suggested last Leadership Chat that we start to gather info regarding our sport and how to improve the safety for us and our dogs
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	If I provide the data form, can we post on the web site?
BCSam	Sure I would love to look at it with the idea of posting it.
Julie_FurFun	i think thats a great idea. just dog injuries, or human too?
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	all injuries...from tournaments to practice
Lee_Heighton	Do we run into any insurance concerns if human injuries are documented
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	If we do not document I think it would be worse
Lee_Heighton	The only concern would be an easily accessible database for an insurance company to gather information and increase rates and/or deny policies. I just wouldn't want to do their job for them
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	by providing documentation, this could help if a lawsuit was to be filed....any personal injury lawyers On-Line tonight.
Lee_Heighton	I agree with the concept, but want to make sure we don't create a bigger problem for our Clubs
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	I understand your concern
BCSam	I think we will need to run it by a legal review before we absolutely commit to the idea. I think the idea has merit but we do need to proceed carefully for the good of all clubs
dgsmith	We wouldn't have to make the info publicly viewable. We could allow people to contribute without publishing all the info
gryph_mach4	As a lawyer, I'd say it could go the other way. I doubt we have as many injuries as softball or many other sports
Lee_Heighton	Zac, you could still submit the form for review and we will check into any legal issues. Dale, freedom of information acts will make it easily accessible
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	that data will be owned by NAFA. I will forward the forms
Lee_Heighton	gryph, what do you mean by the other way. Easier to obtain policies
gryph_mach4	less injuries than the average sport, so lower premiums
dgsmith	Good discussion but we're going to consider this one and see what we can do without any legal entanglements. I think Sam took the todo if Zac sends him the info.
BCSam	I did
dgsmith	Next question relates to our website from Chris
dgsmith	Chris_wooferines> Great Job on the layout & content of the new website! Will there be an FAQ page added? or possibly a "Quick tips for getting started in flyball for new people?" An informational page geared for new people to give them a direction?
BCSam	Lisa is on and maybe she could respond
lisap	hey chris -- sam, dale & i have been batting ideas around about this very thing.
lisap	a "how to" section
lisap	we will need help from others to write stuff (or edit it)
lisap	the JRTCA has a nice section on their site about how to attend a terrier trial (if you are a newbie)
lisap	we could do something like that
Chris_wooferines	It could simple. Seems Dale would know what people ask our organization about getting started since he reads and sorts the "mail"?
gryph_mach4	What about a "forums" section like the old site?
lisap	we talked about that too (really i swear) -- dale & i have been batting the idea around of a competitor's only section
lisap	with forums and stuff not necessarily for the general public (elections info etc)
lisap	want to volunteer to help? :)
lisap	since nobody else is talking, i'll keep talking
lisap	we could use article-type content
lisap	like what appeared in older issues of NAFA news, with how-tos about lane setup, lights, etc. etc.
MargeFlyingColors	Lisa, I can help
lisap	great! we could use some good training tips too
lisap	all kinds of stuff really
lisap	send your ideas to the NAFA email address (flyball@flyball.org) and it will reach several of us
MargeFlyingColors	OK, I'll email you later
lisap	k
dgsmith	Great discussion folks. Perhaps one of the first areas we need is a place for people to make suggestions for the website where others can see and build on the ideas or volunteer to help ;-)
dgsmith	Moving on to our next topic.
dgsmith	Two questions related to the recently passed jump height proposals
dgsmith	chris_THTH> Now that the jump heights have been approved to be changed. I have had a lot of questions as to how measuring is going to be done, the same as in the past or a different way to measure?
dgsmith	Dana_RUFF> For the new lower jump heights in October, is the rule change going to be to make the baseboards a max of 6 inches & still keeping a 1 inch slat for the 7 inch jumps?
Lee_Heighton	Dana's first, yes the base boards will need to be 6 inches
BCSam	The baseboard will be changed from 7 to 6 with a 1 inch board on the top.
BCSam	The act of measuring has not been addressed or changed.
Lee_Heighton	The change in jump heights has nothing to do with the method of measuring. It was a chance to have the delegates decide on new minimum and maximum heights. The new minimum height will really only effect height dogs that measure less than 12" at the withers. The new maximum height will benefit clubs that don't have height dogs, a common issue for new clubs
Julie_FurFun	it will also effect clubs who choose not to use a height dog because its faster
Lee_Heighton	Julie, that is also correct
dgsmith	chris_THTH> To the first question, will new height cards be issued, with them going down to 6 or 7 inches?
Lee_Heighton	Chris, we are already discussing how the height cards will be affected. I am not sure where the 6" inch portion figures in, but we will be addressing the question of 7" height cards. And also, addressing the dogs that currently hold 8" height cards
Paul_Ferlitto	What do you think about the idea of subtracting 5 inches rather than the current 4 inches. With this, it would affect all dogs across the board?
Lee_Heighton	Any decision like this will have to be approved by the delegates. I personally believe that it changes the entire "concept" of our sport.
Julie_FurFun	i agree. i would vote against it
chris_THTH	I think it would promote our sport more for height dogs.
BCSam	It certainly could be a ballot issue if presented to the BOD and then to the delegates.
Julie_FurFun	i think it would do the opposite. make height dogs less valuable
Lee_Heighton	Chris, that confuses me. How does lowering the height for every dog promote height dogs, more than what we have now. I would think that it would diminish their importance
Paul_Ferlitto	The new change only affects dogs that did not even measure for the 8 inch jumps and helped teams without a height dog. I agree and am happy both passed. I don't see how it will change the entire "concept" of our sports. It seems it would be better for all dogs
chris_THTH	Hi Lee, we run a lot of height dog's and some that are under the 12 inches are having to jump 8 inches, which is too much on their body structure. I already had to retire one dog, due to this.
Julie_FurFun	letting bigger dogs jump lower decreases the value of smaller dogs.
Lee_Heighton	Doesn't the new minimum height address that exact problem. Dogs under 12" will be able to jump 7" instead of 8". That change is a pretty large percentage of their height
Chris_wooferines	Paul, in any event, changing the jump heights from 4" to 5" changes the game for every dog and therefore is certainly a "delegate issue" don't you agree?
ScottNET	I see how it would "benefit" all dogs (i.e. they jump lower), but wouldn't it remove the importance of the smaller dogs who might be slower. Teams could use bigger (faster) dogs as height dogs and the slower smaller dogs would be less important
Julie_FurFun	lee is right. lowering the minimum ought to help that problem chris. and also, not every dog is designed to be a career flyball dog.......if jumping 7 inches is too hard on a dog, they should be run sparingly, IMO
chris_THTH	Chris, I would like to see it happen and I guess it's according to what your teams are into, we run mini teams, height dog's only, for the love of the sport and then fun.... Are they the fastest NO, but they enjoy it just as much
Lee_Heighton	Chris, I would really appreciate if you let me know how the new minimum jump height affects your smaller dogs when it is implemented in October.
chris_THTH	I will lee
dgsmith	Next question comes from Julie
dgsmith	Julie_FurFun> with the new form that requires CRNs for all dogs being measured, is there any consideration of issuing 'ID cards' to dogs who receive CRNs, just with name, breed and number? Or maybe it could be purchased separately, since not everyone will need/want one
Moderator note	Somehow this question got lost in the previous discussion and was never addressed during the chat. I'll add a few comments. This proposal could certainly be brought to the Board for consideration. I've seen some teams produce similar items using the current Team Dog Listing, reduced on a copier or printer and laminated. Also, I believe NAFA still mails postcards to confirm CRNs when they are issued.
dgsmith	The next question is a long one and I likely get to respond first - so patience for a moment
dgsmith	Zac_BorderingOnInsanity> In reviewing the filings of the 990 tax returns by NAFA for years 2003 and 2004. There is a question about the income that is produced by NAFA regarding tournament entries. Year 2003 showed $107,632 filed but counting all the teams that ran in 2003 based on the tournament database from the website, the total income should have been $159,739. In 2004 the 990 file was $106,974 but again counting all the teams the total should have been $178,364. This is based on using the $20 per team charge (no manual tournament entry charges were added). Based on the number of increased events from 278 to 305 and the average number of teams per event from 28.73 to 29.24 the total filed for tournament income dropped in 2004 vs. 2003
dgsmith	Zac_BorderingOnInsanity> Why the difference between the years and the large difference from filed vs. actual (database team count per event for that year)?
dgsmith	Our income for tournaments only includes money actually received by NAFA. This does not include shipping costs, rental of other teams EJS systems and other (rare) deductions.
dgsmith	We have put a great deal of focus on our EJS systems with the acquisition of the new SG systems. And have spent a fair amount of time figuring out how many we need to effectively support our events.
dgsmith	Shipping has been a large cost for us - with few working EJS systems (prior to SG), there was a lot of shipping and much of that was air shipping. So Shipping was a big expense and several focused efforts are currently underway to address that. Some shipping we pay out of our pocket and some is deducted from fees.
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	what is rare deductions?
ScottNET	A rare deduction is something like reimbursement for travel to pick up an EJS when the one that arrived was not working, etc
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	On the 990's there is a line item that states shipping. So based on this discussion, shipping charges are deleted from tournament entry fees to NAFA
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	so based on the charges, then NAFA is spending about 50-60k per year shipping EJS around the US and CA.
ScottNET	correct
dgsmith	We know shipping is a problem and we're making concrete progress in addressing it
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	that is A LOT of money on shipping per year
dgsmith	Yup - money we'd rather be spending on other stuff!
ScottNET	correct, a single EJS cost almost $300 to ship to a tournament
dgsmith	Or more when people shipped late and air was involved.
dgsmith	You've also seen the imposition of penalties recently for tournaments that don't ship promptly as that was contributing significantly to the problem.
Lee_Heighton	That is one of the main reasons we have been spending so much on additional EJS.
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	based on what type of shipping?
BCSam	Basic shipping is ground UPS but that is only possible when we have the time between tournaments.
Julie_FurFun	having more sets in circulation will lower the shipping costs won't it?
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	So...based on the schedule of known tournaments....all the EJS are being used the weekend before the next tournament?
BCSam	Zac that has been the case in the past. We are moving away from that happening as we increase the number of working sets.
dgsmith	They were prior to the new EJS systems coming into circulation. You also have to remember how many were "working" at a time and border crossings are an issue.
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	UPS ground should be in the $100-$150 range with 4-5 days to arrive.
BCSam	Should be and guaranteed is different. UPS will not guarantee delivery in 4 or 5 days.
Julie_FurFun	are there going to be 'regional' EJS sets, that would allow clubs to transport them to tournaments and decrease shipping costs
dgsmith	We are doing a number of things to minimize shipping. Lets stay away from words like "regional" or "parking".
ScottNET	Please remember that during the 'busy' season a majority of our EJS systems were shipped second day air. with the addition of systems that should be reduced
dgsmith	We are being smarter about looking ahead and what's needed when and where and planning our shipments (or not shipping if we can afford to leave a set in a city for the next event). We also have a lot more systems to work with now.
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	Will NAFA be using a software program?
ScottNET	software for what? planning shipping?
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	Yes....to better schedule EJS throughout the regions....also, what impact if a EJS system goes down.
dgsmith	Yes, we have some SW that is assisting us in the optimization effort.
dgsmith	It does not currently proactively consider a down system but can replan if one goes out of circulation.
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	So the large investment of the new EJS will help reduce the large $$$ in shipping in the long run.
ScottNET	Zac, I think its important to state that your concerns are extremely valid. The BOD has discussed this issue numerous times. The very simple concept was that we didn't have enough systems to reduce the use of air shipping. Hopefully, that will change
ScottNET	That is our hope. But shipping was not our primary concern in ordering these systems. We were looking at having a reliable state of the art system. Our older systems were going down way too often
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	With all the shipping of the New Systems from event to event. What checks and balances are there to insure the system is working before the next event? I've see some parts that have taken a beating.
barbaraFAX	Zac, have you seen them yet ??
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	The new systems....yes....I worked with Dale at a RUFF tournament in CO recording with cameras some of the software issues.
ScottNET	sounds like you are discussing when we were doing our testing. Since then the software issues have been taken care of. That was before they were in 'production'
BCSam	There is communication between EJS coordinator and tournament director. If there is a problem the TD should be immediately in contact with the coordinator so that the problem set is sent for repairs and not forwarded on to the next tournament.
Julie_FurFun	at the last tourney we were at, the timing of the lights was off......the yellow to green sequence was on a 1.4 delay, and it took a while to catch. other than that, i love the new systems. to run with and to operate
dgsmith	Actually, it was on a 1.0 delay. The normal is 1.2. Our manufacturer errantly shipped a system set wrong from the factory and that was its first use. Nice catch though and glad we were able to get it fixed during the event.
Julie_FurFun	oh, right, my bad. i just knew it was off - not so hot at remembering numbers:)
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	broken parts....from the battery holder to the green plastic tube holder.
dgsmith	I'd be interested in a private note on any breakage patterns that are being seen. I know about the green things. Battery holders would be new news. Any other breakage patterns on the new SG lights would also be of interest. A note to flyball@flyball.org would be great!
dgsmith	Just a quick commercial message on the green things. Please, folks, treat them with care. They need to be removed before the poles are removed from the bases and when they are put on - they need to go where the grooves are in the poles.
Indy	It's taken a while for me to get used to them while judging (and racing), but I find that they slow down tournaments. More flags - especially earlies. We used to average at least 9 an hour and now it's more like just over 7 an hour.
ScottNET	Indy, I agree. When I first started, I had trouble keeping pace. Since then, I've found a number of ways to increase the pace and have been able to get back to my original per race average
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	Will the lights ever go to 1 second? Places like Davisburg with only 58 feet of run back is tough. If you go on the 3rd yellow your starting at about 20 feet.
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	or trying to guess the start between 2nd and 3rd yellow.
dgsmith	You are also likely to see a change in tie criteria proposed at the next BoD meeting since the new EJS is more capable of discerning a winner in a close finish due to its increased accuracy and decreased beam spacing.
Zac_BorderingOnInsanity	Is there a check list that the RD and TD sign off when shipping the EJS to the next event?
Indy	Actually, it might be nice to have the RD's inspect the containers prior to shipping. Make it part of their duties!
dgsmith	We're working on the EJS evaluation forms along with a few other things. I think that will help address what you're talking about. This will document arrival and departure condition and note any problems so we can deal with them proactively.
dgsmith	Probably not the RD though - more likely the TD or someone associated with the hosting Club.
BCSam	Before we have people going off may I hear any comments about the Junior Handler pins and how you view their reception
Julie_FurFun	love them. the kids love them too
chris_THTH	The handlers loved them at the first tourney in April in Perry.
Indy	I think only one handler has received a pin here.
Lee_Heighton	Indy, maybe you could suggest qualified Junior's to your RD over the next couple of tournaments
Indy	I think there are only a couple of juniors that actually run. I can only think of approx 3. One pin was given. Now that that first pin was given out, I'm sure that the others will get theirs. or want theirs... :)
BCSam	Thanks everyone for attending. There are many issues on the table right now. Careful structuring of light shipping. The implementation of the delegate votes. The refinement of the Web site. Regional changes. Rule changes. All important all being worked on in the near future. Thanks again for you input.
Lee_Heighton	I have to leave now as dinner is long past cold. Thank you to everyone for attending and please feel free to contact me at any time with suggestions.
kris_pickering	Thanks, all.
dgsmith	Thank you all for joining this evening. Transcript on the website when I get a few minutes to sort out some of the threads.